Need advice: buying CSL Elite for drifting. Concerns on mechanical friction.
Hello everyone!
I am looking for a wheelbase for drifting and the CSL Elite v1.1 looks like the best value, but i still have some concerns.
When it comes to drifting, i am super obsessed with very fast, snappy transitions, something i've never been able to properly do on my current wheelbase because it has a lot of mechanical friction, it cannot rotate fast enough.
Unfortunately i couldnt find any reviews or videos on the internet specifically showcasing the rotation speed and acceleration of the CSL Elite v1.1. After watching the teardown video of Sim Racing Garage, i noticed that the single belt mechanism uses belt tensioners, but it was not clear whether those tensioners use ball bearings on the shaft, but looking at the grease they were covered with, my assumption is that they are simple plastic directly put on a shaft, which could introduce significant friction in the system.
I am not expecting the CSL to be as fast as a DD base, but it would be nice to have it perform as best as it possibly could. Some of you would probably want to recommend the CSW 2.5, but i want a base that has at least 1080 degrees of rotation, as i quite often drift cars that have more than 900 degrees. I was considering a DD but i'd have to wait a bit to be able to afford it, and i would rather spend the leftover money on additional equipment, assuming that a CSL can satisfy my needs.
So, can anyone give me any information regarding the friction of this base? Do the tensioners have any bearing between them and the shaft? Can the CSL rotate and accelerate fast enough to replicate a snappy real car with 1080 rotation max? I would be greatful if someone directly from Fanatec could give me some insight.
Thanks in advance!
Comments
I dont know what you are using now but the CSL got a setting called "Drift Mode" which can be set to make the wheel turn really fast. You could search for it on youtube and im sure someone has uploaded a demostration.
Peter Olah-Katai May I ask which one is your current wheel base?
I am fully aware of drift mode and what it does. But drift mode doesnt "eliminate" the friction, it just helps the motor overcome it, and from what i heard it is not the most realistic thing when it comes to force feedback feel.
I am using a Thrustmaster T150, which has a lot of friction from the factory.
Through last year i had the opportunity to try other t150 wheels other than mine, and appearantly mine was the worst. The belt tensioners in mine were really tight wich add insane drag, and when i tried to loosen them up even a littlebit, the belt started to slip on the gears :/.
Of all the wheels I've tried, the T150 has the highest internal friction.
The CSL Elite has much less friction and is three times more powerful which makes it much better for drifting.
Really appreciate your answer mate! However im gonna need something a bit more specific, just like i was with my questions. Much better is not gonna do it for me.
Here is a video i found of a guy cranking up the drift mode and the wheel going ham because of it: https://youtu.be/kZoXWm-WCQ . Can someone confirm if this is the maximum rotation speed, or can it go even faster. This speed seems to be a little less than 2.5 rotation per second. I would need just a bit more than that.
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The belt tensioners do not use ball bearings. Friction in a belt drive wheel is unavoidable which is why Fanatec chose to use the motor to try to negate this in positive drift settings. If you are, as you say, obsessed with fast snappy transitions then you will not be happy with any belt driven wheel as the performance is negatively impacted by their design.
You say you're not expecting the CSL to be as fast as a DD base, but it would be nice to have it perform as best as it possibly could. It does -albeit within its design limitations. Whether that performance is at a level you would like is a different question.
I used a CSL Elite for around a year and I did really like it, but it is not great for drifting; as you know the positive drift acceleration is not entirely realistic feeling.
Your only solution for the best, most realistic feeling and the snappiest transitions is to go DD - unfortunately you are reluctant to go down this route due to budget. You need to make a decision - work within your existing budget and accept the compromises or spend more and get what you want.
You say the CSL Elite looks the best value but this is subjective - yes, it is the cheapest Fanatec option but it is not good value if it doesn't offer you what you want. I don't think it will - it is compromised by it's drive system - after all it is the budget option.
My advice would be to work on your budget, minimise your compromises (you are very clear in what you need) and buy a DD. I was in a similar situation - enjoyed the CSL Elite but was conscious that it was compromised so bought a DD2. I haven't looked back
Thank you Gary for your detailed answer. I have a really hard time deciding. I could manage the extra wait time until i have the money for a DD, but i am also worried a bit about compatibility. When i get bored of hardcore drifting, i tend to try some arcade and less serious racers with a wheel, for example CarX Drift Racing, which is not compatible with anything above a CSL Elite. I guess there is no wheel out there currently on the market to satisfy my needs, regardless of cost. I might just have the buy the Elite, than a DD later, and keep both maybe.
May i ask what rim where you using with your base? In particular how heavy was it? I am planning to use it with the P1 rim if i eventually go with the Elite, and i heard its very light, being little less than 1kg might speed up that FFB to a level that i can live with.
I was using the P1 and occasionally the McLaren GT3. They are both really light as you say. The CSL Elite would struggle with anything heavier - the wheels I use now (Porsche on Podium hub with Endurance button box and Classic 2 on universal hub are much heavier - more than double the weight - they would really slow down the CSL Elite.
Hi Peter,
I think you might be overestimating the importance of rotation speed.
Let me give you some information from a different angle.
I've chatted to the Red Bull Drift Brothers on a few occasions, and they are very enthusiastic about Fanatec sim equipment. We have provided equipment to them before for promotional purposes, but even before that, they were using Fanatec hardware that they purchased themselves, namely the ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5, and they considered that to be 'awesome' for drifting. When we asked them to demonstrate some drifting on our Podium wheel base at the Sim Expo, the first thing they did was turn down the strength and turn up the NDP (natural damper) setting, to slow the wheel down.
Bear in mind that the CSL Elite Wheel Base V1.1 and Wheel Base + use the same motor as the V2.5, but with a different reduction ratio for the belt mechanism, making the CSL Elite bases have less torque, but a faster rotation speed than the V2.5.
You absolutely do not need to run Drift Mode in the positive values on these newer bases. They are already 'too fast' and this adds unrealistic acceleration on top of that. In most cases, you will still want to add damping, i.e. with negative values in Drift Mode.
I would argue that torque and response is more important than wheel speed, because if the response is better, you don't need such rapid wheel speed to catch the slide or transition in the first place. It allows you to be smoother and more precise. Higher torque and response also helps to overcome the rotational inertia of the heavier wheels. For these reasons, I would say the technically 'slower' V2.5 will feel better for drifting than the CSL Elite bases. But ultimately they are all perfectly capable of doing it, you just have to get used to their characteristics. The direct drive bases are better still, again not because of their wheel speed, but because of the way they deliver their torque.
[Fanatec Community Manager]
Thanks Dominic! I am convinced now. CSL Elite it is!!!