I also agree with those that I believe Fanatec should provide some sort of compensation for the push back of the release of the DD+. By the looks of today's release of information, it looks like we are looking at the mid February at the earliest which I wouldn't count on anyway at this point. Compensation for the delays should be discussed by Fanatec to be fair to those who have paid in full for a product that was supposed to be released over a month ago at this point. Very dishonest business dealings and not a fair way to keep customers for brand loyalty overall.
That's not an option is it? You don't generally have to update firmware to play on console. It will usually work right out of the box on console. I don't think I had to update my DD pro to work on PS5 at first.
No. It's all hardware they are talking about. New Electronics. Which is just Sony placing hurdles on peripherals that never really should be. It's like VR exlusives. You wouldn't lock out a monitor or a tv right? So it sucks and it's nothing for us to get excited about.
When Fanatec talks about being the FIRST to get this to the market it means nothing to us except, Sony's licensing security. It is not consumer friendly in any way. Just a padlock that we pay a premium for.
It's almost as bad as Sim Devs paying car companies to market their cars for them.
Sure is hard being a sim racer these days. vroom vroom?
because u just cant do such a thing they cant sell it because it has the chip even if they disable it they cant just give it out into peoples hands untill its done
I’ve read a lot about getting free stuff and compensation for us having to deal with this mess. I don’t agree with that. However, I feel that those of us who have an order outstanding because of the DD+ not being able to be shipped they could make an exception to their not shipping partial orders rule. And send all in stock items on the order with the DD+.
That's me out. Cancelled after pre order in October. Time to plan ripping the band aid and change ecosystem. Maybe short some Endor stocks to pay for it haha.
faith & trust in fanatec as a company must be at an all time low.
Apart from DD+ my ordering experience has been fine, even got my wheel earlier than planned.
As a new customer I couldn’t be more disappointed about DD + & how it’s been handled . It’s only put egg on your face & looks really bad in the sim community, everyone in discords & on social groups etc via games like gt7, iracing. Acc etc are all talkin about you fanatec , and it ain’t all rosey 🌹
damage control tactics better improve cause this ain’t getting better, longer it takes more will cancel, that hype train has left the station
Let's think logically for a moment. We can conclude that this launch has been a disaster, but we are talking about Fanatec, probably the largest company in sim racing—people outside the community know them. With that said, let's consider that clearly hundreds, or maybe even thousands, have canceled their preorders, but many more have not. Additionally, for a product that will be on the market for years, the loss of customers who pre-order might not have a significant impact.
Another crucial point is that on paper, it is the best option compatible with PlayStation. Let's be honest; Logitech is not the best. Its direct drive (DD) only has one ring, and in Newton-meters, it falls behind. Anyone playing on PS4/PS5 and seeking the best will buy this product.
Do we really know the truth? None of us know; people speculate that the transportation problem was a lie. However, searching for news related to the Suez Canal incident makes it likely that they did have transport issues. Some speculate that there is a high percentage of faulty bases, and either Sony refuses to grant the license for this reason, or Fanatec is trying to delay the release to find a solution. While I personally find this logical, it seems absurd for a company of this type, with years of experience, wealth, and being publicly traded, to release a product to the market without rigorous testing.
The reality is, we don't know what's happening, and speculating won't lead us anywhere. The situation is awful—I have an expensive, empty cockpit and several thousand euros invested in Fanatec with nothing in return (for now). Requesting compensation, as I've read, would be a significant gesture, but I don't believe it will happen since they mentioned in "notes" that the license was still pending, allowing for potential delays. The truth is, if it were up to Fanatec, the DD+ would have already been shipped. Let's not forget they thrive on selling sim racing equipment.
I have been very active in this forum since I ordered the DD+, and it was delayed for the first time. To be honest, I haven't drawn any conclusions, nor have I gained anything positive. For those of you who want to cancel, I encourage you to do so, and for those who want to keep waiting, go ahead, I will continue waiting. Greetings to everyone; it has been a pleasure exchanging ideas and concerns with you. Hang in there!
I understood what happens in the fanatec world (455 drivers).
I have a cls dd 5nm with mclaren gt3 v2.
After the last update it worked normally with my xbox series x.
On January 19th, together with fanatec's statement on the sony.in chip, Xbox mode was immediately blocked.
That is, the wheel works on PC and PC comp. but it doesn't work on xbox.
I tried to do all the possible maneuvers, downgrade the version (451-452-454-455, remove the bootleard mode tree? nothing.
continues to work only in PC mode.
Strange given that the Xbox mode is available in the peripherals but the USB input is missing. (I attach a photo).
THIS MAKES ME THINK THAT FANATEC IS ALREADY SELLING PRODUCTS WITH SONY CHIPS INSIDE BUT HAS HAD TO BLOCK WITH AN UPDATE BECAUSE IT IS NOT YET IN REGULATION.
AND BY BLOCKING SONY HE ALSO BLOCKED XBOX.
I opened a ticket and am waiting for responses.
It's annoying to buy a new product and not be able to use it. who will give me back this lost time?
who pays me?
Thank you friends for your attention, I invite you to reflect on whether this is right?
The Xbox Mode is broken in the firmware included in driver 455, completely unrelated to the missing Playstation license for the new Playstation electronics, which are first used in the new CS DD+, that's all.
It will be fixed with the next firmware.
In the meantime, you just need to downgrade the driver back to 454 or 451 and then manually downgrade the base firmware. Then the Xbox mode will immediately work again.
Maurizio, I tried the various downgrades. The Xbox mode is there and exists and you can see it.
The point is that, when I switch to Xbox the steering wheel goes back to PC mode by itself because it doesn't see the USB input which has been deleted as you can see from the photo I sent you in update 455. If you want I can also post a video!!
Yes post a video, I dont understand your issue at all.
Nothing gets deleted by itself and the Xbox mode should be available and working (of course only on Xbox, not on PC) when you use Firmware 1.1.10.6 or older.
So basically if we add up the processes the dd+ will go thru including shipping until the units are in customers hands we’re pretty much talking 1st week of March and at best last week of February. (Ok so I’m adding the usual delays in fanatecs dispatch system, like label created for a week etc)
That looks like a hardware issue and you should contact the support (or wait for an answer from them as you already created a support ticket). It is definitely completely unrelated to the CS DD+ PlayStation license topic.
Group’s revenue in 2022 amounted to EUR 119.2 million, compared to EUR 81.3 million in the previous year (AG: EUR 115.9 million, previous year: EUR 73.1 million) and was thus within the range of the forecast made in the previous year. Revenue thus increased by 46.6% (AG: +58.5%). The largest share of the increase in revenue for the full year 2022 was in the first half of 2022, by posting an increase of 124.0% to EUR 79.3 million (previous year: EUR 35.4 million). In particular, the increasing sales in connection with the SONY launch of the gaming software “Gran Turismo 7” as well as the significantly better availability of goods had an impact here. In the second half of 2022, sales momentum was limited in particular due to a lack of availability in connection with supply difficulties in the chip industry, and revenue declined by 13%.
6.1.3. | Company-specific risks
Due to operational developments such as the strong growth, a corresponding stockpiling (mainly electronic components) and the precautions taken due to the tense situation in the logistics chains, Endor had to expand its credit lines in the short term in 2022 and is therefore subject to an increased liquidity risk compared to the previous year.
In the context of the current financing situation, besides loans for the construction project, the Group has access to various credit lines amounting to approximately EUR 53 million for operations, which are largely utilised. These credit lines have been granted until further notice in the amount of EUR 26 million and are due in the amount of EUR 11 million at the end of October 2023 and in the amount of EUR 12 million at the end of December 2023.
Should the banking environment deteriorate and credit lines not be extended or be terminated at short notice, an increased outflow of liquidity is to be expected which, depending on operating performance, could only be partially offset by operating cash flow and, in particular, would also have to be financed by external cash inflows. In particular, there are risks if the Group’s planned sales, which are slightly higher than the previous year’s figure and nearly half of which relate to the months of October to December, cannot be realised.
Based on the discussions with the banks to date, the current equity ratio in the Group, the previously unencumbered assets (in particular inventories and brand) and the upcoming launches of new products in 2023, the movie “Gran Turismo,” the Forza Motorsport 8 for the Xbox to be released in October and the associated reduction in inventories and operating cash flows, the Management Board considers the financing situation to be non-critical.
I checked the annual report from 2022. It's just me who see that they will needed cash flow from Ocotber to December. And with the "Forza Flop" (look what Gran Turismo did...124% more sales) they need more money. And best thing is to make "Great offers" even if you know that you do not have goods in stock ( Espeacially looks like Playstation product sell very well - CS DD+?? ) Receive full amount of money and than apologize for 30 or more days to complete a financial year and extend the credit lines with the banks????
Maybe I just watch to much cospiracy movies.... Maybe are really just stocks and certificate problems... or maybe not. :)
Business is a dirty world that respects neither passion, sacrifices, suffering and only money.
Do you know how much money I would make if I sold something with a Play Station logo?
Let's not forget that it is the best-selling console in the world, you know how many kids will want their Vallanti Fanatec.
So Fanatec's strategy of selling more than it has and installing the Sony chips first and then enabling them later seems perfect to me.
With a maneuver on the margins of the legal selling products that he did not have and brought to the attention of Sony.
And now with a bullshit update it tries to buy time for a license to be effective which at the moment should not even be advertised since it is not definitive.
It's like saying you had a girlfriend before you met her.
Currently, we do not anticipate receiving the license for the first product on the market, which incorporates Sony's new security electronics within the next two weeks.
@Fanatec holt doch einfach wieder die Podium F1 für uns aus den Keller! Diese hat bereits eine Sony Lizenz und ich würde diese inklusive QR2 auch gegen meine DD+ Bestellung tauschen. Ich denke vielen anderen hier geht es ähnlich! RE-Launch der Podium F1 für alle DD+ Vorbesteller anbieten und das Vorbestellungsdatum für die DD+ auf ein fiktives Datum z.B. 2099 setzen wäre ein richtiges Zeichen. Es zehrt echt an den Nerven und jeder fragt sich ob überhaupt eine Sony-Lizenz nach dem ganzen Debakel geben wird. Es ist einfach nur traurig und ich hoffe Ihr bekommt wieder die Kurve und lernt endlich aus den getanen Fehlern! Die Produkte sind super aber der Support und das Bestellsystem sind nicht das gelbe vom Ei, siehe Trustpilot.
@Fanatec just get the podium F1 out of the basement for us again! This already has a Sony license and I would also exchange it including QR2 for my DD+ order. I think many others here feel the same way! Offering RE-Launch of the Podium F1 for all DD+ pre-orderers and setting the pre-order date for the DD+ on a fictitious date, e.g. 2099, would be a real sign. It really eats your nerves and everyone wonders if there will be a Sony license after all the debacle. It's just sad and I hope you get the curve again and finally learn from the mistakes you've made! The products are great but the support and the ordering system are not the yellow of the egg, see Trustpilot.
What this update says is that in about two weeks they'll give us another update, NOT that we'll have resolution of the issue. That is in fact completely unknown at this point. Why this process takes so damn long from Sony is beyond me, but let's not forget that our dealings were NEVER with Sony, it was with Fanatec, who gave us an arbitrary availability date to collect our money and now act like this is all on Sony, when they in fact should have never started selling the product without final approval. Why isn't there a class action on this already is beyond me.
I've heard of all the massive delays in people receiving their orders. I wanted to order the DD Pro Gran Turismo wheel and pedal combo. Does anyone know if the delays are across the board om all products or only specific ones?
But this is really the question.. Is it a chip, piece of hardware delivered by Sony or a software certificate, Fanatec has to implement.. Nevertheless we could accuse Fanatec for the bad communication with release date and actual situation, but i think Sony made the biggest mistake in this case.. they send Chips, Certifiate, API Access or whatever to a partner, who has the official DD Pro since 2 years on the market, is also the lead sponsor for GT World 2023, and didn't have a plan, how to give a positiv signal to the market.. they introduce a new security chip (or whatever), didn't give any information to the latest news to the customer, and the first providing Company earns a big internet bash.. So i think, other companys like Moza, Asptek, Simcube.. won't device to get a license for their products from Sony, as they see at the moment, how Sony handles these problems..
Comments
I also agree with those that I believe Fanatec should provide some sort of compensation for the push back of the release of the DD+. By the looks of today's release of information, it looks like we are looking at the mid February at the earliest which I wouldn't count on anyway at this point. Compensation for the delays should be discussed by Fanatec to be fair to those who have paid in full for a product that was supposed to be released over a month ago at this point. Very dishonest business dealings and not a fair way to keep customers for brand loyalty overall.
That's not an option is it? You don't generally have to update firmware to play on console. It will usually work right out of the box on console. I don't think I had to update my DD pro to work on PS5 at first.
No. It's all hardware they are talking about. New Electronics. Which is just Sony placing hurdles on peripherals that never really should be. It's like VR exlusives. You wouldn't lock out a monitor or a tv right? So it sucks and it's nothing for us to get excited about.
When Fanatec talks about being the FIRST to get this to the market it means nothing to us except, Sony's licensing security. It is not consumer friendly in any way. Just a padlock that we pay a premium for.
It's almost as bad as Sim Devs paying car companies to market their cars for them.
Sure is hard being a sim racer these days. vroom vroom?
because u just cant do such a thing they cant sell it because it has the chip even if they disable it they cant just give it out into peoples hands untill its done
I’ve read a lot about getting free stuff and compensation for us having to deal with this mess. I don’t agree with that. However, I feel that those of us who have an order outstanding because of the DD+ not being able to be shipped they could make an exception to their not shipping partial orders rule. And send all in stock items on the order with the DD+.
I think that sounds reasonable.
That's me out. Cancelled after pre order in October. Time to plan ripping the band aid and change ecosystem. Maybe short some Endor stocks to pay for it haha.
Amount of customers lost must be quiet high.
faith & trust in fanatec as a company must be at an all time low.
Apart from DD+ my ordering experience has been fine, even got my wheel earlier than planned.
As a new customer I couldn’t be more disappointed about DD + & how it’s been handled . It’s only put egg on your face & looks really bad in the sim community, everyone in discords & on social groups etc via games like gt7, iracing. Acc etc are all talkin about you fanatec , and it ain’t all rosey 🌹
damage control tactics better improve cause this ain’t getting better, longer it takes more will cancel, that hype train has left the station
Let's think logically for a moment. We can conclude that this launch has been a disaster, but we are talking about Fanatec, probably the largest company in sim racing—people outside the community know them. With that said, let's consider that clearly hundreds, or maybe even thousands, have canceled their preorders, but many more have not. Additionally, for a product that will be on the market for years, the loss of customers who pre-order might not have a significant impact.
Another crucial point is that on paper, it is the best option compatible with PlayStation. Let's be honest; Logitech is not the best. Its direct drive (DD) only has one ring, and in Newton-meters, it falls behind. Anyone playing on PS4/PS5 and seeking the best will buy this product.
Do we really know the truth? None of us know; people speculate that the transportation problem was a lie. However, searching for news related to the Suez Canal incident makes it likely that they did have transport issues. Some speculate that there is a high percentage of faulty bases, and either Sony refuses to grant the license for this reason, or Fanatec is trying to delay the release to find a solution. While I personally find this logical, it seems absurd for a company of this type, with years of experience, wealth, and being publicly traded, to release a product to the market without rigorous testing.
The reality is, we don't know what's happening, and speculating won't lead us anywhere. The situation is awful—I have an expensive, empty cockpit and several thousand euros invested in Fanatec with nothing in return (for now). Requesting compensation, as I've read, would be a significant gesture, but I don't believe it will happen since they mentioned in "notes" that the license was still pending, allowing for potential delays. The truth is, if it were up to Fanatec, the DD+ would have already been shipped. Let's not forget they thrive on selling sim racing equipment.
I have been very active in this forum since I ordered the DD+, and it was delayed for the first time. To be honest, I haven't drawn any conclusions, nor have I gained anything positive. For those of you who want to cancel, I encourage you to do so, and for those who want to keep waiting, go ahead, I will continue waiting. Greetings to everyone; it has been a pleasure exchanging ideas and concerns with you. Hang in there!
I understood what happens in the fanatec world (455 drivers).
I have a cls dd 5nm with mclaren gt3 v2.
After the last update it worked normally with my xbox series x.
On January 19th, together with fanatec's statement on the sony.in chip, Xbox mode was immediately blocked.
That is, the wheel works on PC and PC comp. but it doesn't work on xbox.
I tried to do all the possible maneuvers, downgrade the version (451-452-454-455, remove the bootleard mode tree? nothing.
continues to work only in PC mode.
Strange given that the Xbox mode is available in the peripherals but the USB input is missing. (I attach a photo).
THIS MAKES ME THINK THAT FANATEC IS ALREADY SELLING PRODUCTS WITH SONY CHIPS INSIDE BUT HAS HAD TO BLOCK WITH AN UPDATE BECAUSE IT IS NOT YET IN REGULATION.
AND BY BLOCKING SONY HE ALSO BLOCKED XBOX.
I opened a ticket and am waiting for responses.
It's annoying to buy a new product and not be able to use it. who will give me back this lost time?
who pays me?
Thank you friends for your attention, I invite you to reflect on whether this is right?
That's a completely false thinking.
The Xbox Mode is broken in the firmware included in driver 455, completely unrelated to the missing Playstation license for the new Playstation electronics, which are first used in the new CS DD+, that's all.
It will be fixed with the next firmware.
In the meantime, you just need to downgrade the driver back to 454 or 451 and then manually downgrade the base firmware. Then the Xbox mode will immediately work again.
Maurizio, I tried the various downgrades. The Xbox mode is there and exists and you can see it.
The point is that, when I switch to Xbox the steering wheel goes back to PC mode by itself because it doesn't see the USB input which has been deleted as you can see from the photo I sent you in update 455. If you want I can also post a video!!
Yes post a video, I dont understand your issue at all.
Nothing gets deleted by itself and the Xbox mode should be available and working (of course only on Xbox, not on PC) when you use Firmware 1.1.10.6 or older.
This is the video I also post you the reset folder from the day it broke thanks .
So basically if we add up the processes the dd+ will go thru including shipping until the units are in customers hands we’re pretty much talking 1st week of March and at best last week of February. (Ok so I’m adding the usual delays in fanatecs dispatch system, like label created for a week etc)
That looks like a hardware issue and you should contact the support (or wait for an answer from them as you already created a support ticket). It is definitely completely unrelated to the CS DD+ PlayStation license topic.
How would they disable PS5. It probably works directly out of the box. Sony would need to provide an update to disable it through PS5 wouldn't they?
From Fanatec Annual Report for 2022...
3.3 | Earnings Position Endor
Group’s revenue in 2022 amounted to EUR 119.2 million, compared to EUR 81.3 million in the previous year (AG: EUR 115.9 million, previous year: EUR 73.1 million) and was thus within the range of the forecast made in the previous year. Revenue thus increased by 46.6% (AG: +58.5%). The largest share of the increase in revenue for the full year 2022 was in the first half of 2022, by posting an increase of 124.0% to EUR 79.3 million (previous year: EUR 35.4 million). In particular, the increasing sales in connection with the SONY launch of the gaming software “Gran Turismo 7” as well as the significantly better availability of goods had an impact here. In the second half of 2022, sales momentum was limited in particular due to a lack of availability in connection with supply difficulties in the chip industry, and revenue declined by 13%.
6.1.3. | Company-specific risks
Due to operational developments such as the strong growth, a corresponding stockpiling (mainly electronic components) and the precautions taken due to the tense situation in the logistics chains, Endor had to expand its credit lines in the short term in 2022 and is therefore subject to an increased liquidity risk compared to the previous year.
In the context of the current financing situation, besides loans for the construction project, the Group has access to various credit lines amounting to approximately EUR 53 million for operations, which are largely utilised. These credit lines have been granted until further notice in the amount of EUR 26 million and are due in the amount of EUR 11 million at the end of October 2023 and in the amount of EUR 12 million at the end of December 2023.
Should the banking environment deteriorate and credit lines not be extended or be terminated at short notice, an increased outflow of liquidity is to be expected which, depending on operating performance, could only be partially offset by operating cash flow and, in particular, would also have to be financed by external cash inflows. In particular, there are risks if the Group’s planned sales, which are slightly higher than the previous year’s figure and nearly half of which relate to the months of October to December, cannot be realised.
Based on the discussions with the banks to date, the current equity ratio in the Group, the previously unencumbered assets (in particular inventories and brand) and the upcoming launches of new products in 2023, the movie “Gran Turismo,” the Forza Motorsport 8 for the Xbox to be released in October and the associated reduction in inventories and operating cash flows, the Management Board considers the financing situation to be non-critical.
I checked the annual report from 2022. It's just me who see that they will needed cash flow from Ocotber to December. And with the "Forza Flop" (look what Gran Turismo did...124% more sales) they need more money. And best thing is to make "Great offers" even if you know that you do not have goods in stock ( Espeacially looks like Playstation product sell very well - CS DD+?? ) Receive full amount of money and than apologize for 30 or more days to complete a financial year and extend the credit lines with the banks????
Maybe I just watch to much cospiracy movies.... Maybe are really just stocks and certificate problems... or maybe not. :)
Business is a dirty world that respects neither passion, sacrifices, suffering and only money.
Do you know how much money I would make if I sold something with a Play Station logo?
Let's not forget that it is the best-selling console in the world, you know how many kids will want their Vallanti Fanatec.
So Fanatec's strategy of selling more than it has and installing the Sony chips first and then enabling them later seems perfect to me.
With a maneuver on the margins of the legal selling products that he did not have and brought to the attention of Sony.
And now with a bullshit update it tries to buy time for a license to be effective which at the moment should not even be advertised since it is not definitive.
It's like saying you had a girlfriend before you met her.
Thanks for your attention.
Czy chodziło Ci o: I have a general question whether this ban by Sony applies to all Fanatec steering wheels or only ClubSport DD+
Only the dd+. The chip is only in the wheel base.
What chip? I didnt found any information about this chip
Chip, firmware; whatever they do to make it compatible with a PS5. Point is, the base is what determines whether it functions with PS.
Currently, we do not anticipate receiving the license for the first product on the market, which incorporates Sony's new security electronics within the next two weeks.
@Fanatec holt doch einfach wieder die Podium F1 für uns aus den Keller! Diese hat bereits eine Sony Lizenz und ich würde diese inklusive QR2 auch gegen meine DD+ Bestellung tauschen. Ich denke vielen anderen hier geht es ähnlich! RE-Launch der Podium F1 für alle DD+ Vorbesteller anbieten und das Vorbestellungsdatum für die DD+ auf ein fiktives Datum z.B. 2099 setzen wäre ein richtiges Zeichen. Es zehrt echt an den Nerven und jeder fragt sich ob überhaupt eine Sony-Lizenz nach dem ganzen Debakel geben wird. Es ist einfach nur traurig und ich hoffe Ihr bekommt wieder die Kurve und lernt endlich aus den getanen Fehlern! Die Produkte sind super aber der Support und das Bestellsystem sind nicht das gelbe vom Ei, siehe Trustpilot.
@Fanatec just get the podium F1 out of the basement for us again! This already has a Sony license and I would also exchange it including QR2 for my DD+ order. I think many others here feel the same way! Offering RE-Launch of the Podium F1 for all DD+ pre-orderers and setting the pre-order date for the DD+ on a fictitious date, e.g. 2099, would be a real sign. It really eats your nerves and everyone wonders if there will be a Sony license after all the debacle. It's just sad and I hope you get the curve again and finally learn from the mistakes you've made! The products are great but the support and the ordering system are not the yellow of the egg, see Trustpilot.
@James - what about allow us to buy CS DD for old price?
What this update says is that in about two weeks they'll give us another update, NOT that we'll have resolution of the issue. That is in fact completely unknown at this point. Why this process takes so damn long from Sony is beyond me, but let's not forget that our dealings were NEVER with Sony, it was with Fanatec, who gave us an arbitrary availability date to collect our money and now act like this is all on Sony, when they in fact should have never started selling the product without final approval. Why isn't there a class action on this already is beyond me.
I've heard of all the massive delays in people receiving their orders. I wanted to order the DD Pro Gran Turismo wheel and pedal combo. Does anyone know if the delays are across the board om all products or only specific ones?
That’s what I did, I bought the gt dd pro immediately after the update Friday about the another delay off the DD+
Class action !!!
But this is really the question.. Is it a chip, piece of hardware delivered by Sony or a software certificate, Fanatec has to implement.. Nevertheless we could accuse Fanatec for the bad communication with release date and actual situation, but i think Sony made the biggest mistake in this case.. they send Chips, Certifiate, API Access or whatever to a partner, who has the official DD Pro since 2 years on the market, is also the lead sponsor for GT World 2023, and didn't have a plan, how to give a positiv signal to the market.. they introduce a new security chip (or whatever), didn't give any information to the latest news to the customer, and the first providing Company earns a big internet bash.. So i think, other companys like Moza, Asptek, Simcube.. won't device to get a license for their products from Sony, as they see at the moment, how Sony handles these problems..